00:00:00: Introduction
00:02:39: Why working with introverts/extroverts issues
00:04:38: A easy definition of extroversion/introversion
00:06:23: Some introvert traits
00:08:33: Some extrovert traits
00:11:58: Concepts for motion…
00:12:26: … 1: you/me/we
00:15:35: … 2: discover what works
00:18:38: … 3: be looking out
00:23:37: Remaining ideas

Helen Tupper: Hello, I am Helen. 

Sarah Ellis: And I am Sarah. 

Helen Tupper: And that is the Squiggly Careers podcast, a weekly present the place we dive into the ups, downs, ins and outs of your world of labor, and offer you some concepts for motion and a few instruments to check out that will help you along with your growth.  We actually, actually care about you feeling assured about your profession, about you having a little bit of readability about what you need to obtain, and also you with the ability to go after what you need.  And so hopefully this podcast shall be a helpful lesson that will help you to try this.  And if it’s the first time that you’re listening, it’s price understanding that we create plenty of completely different sources to help you.  

So, we have issues like our PodSheets, they’re one-page summaries which you could obtain afterwards they usually’ll allow you to to take motion.  It will have all of the concepts that we speak about at this time.  We’ve PodNotes, which we placed on social, so be sure to’re following us @amazingif on Instagram or LinkedIn.  They’re good swipable and shareable summaries, if you recognize different folks that they may assist.  And in addition, PodPlus, which is a weekly get-together with a bunch of like-minded learners.  It is fully free, it is half-hour, it is Thursday at 9.00am within the UK, and it is a good place to dive in a bit deeper into what we’re speaking about at this time, which is, how can introverts and extroverts work higher collectively? 

Sarah Ellis: The best way that you just began that, that does very a lot sound like, significantly for our common listeners who will know that I am extra of an introvert and also you’re extra of an extrovert, that we now must work higher collectively since you have been like —

Helen Tupper: The place might this concept have come from for this podcast?! 

Sarah Ellis: However really, for as soon as, that is not the place this concept has come from.  I feel it is extra some insights that we have learn and we all know it is a matter plenty of individuals are excited about.  And we additionally do recognise that as any person who is comparatively introverted, and I feel it is most likely honest to say very extroverted, we’ll come on to that, we work rather well collectively, however that has taken work.  So, for that relationship to be higher, for us to see all of the optimistic advantages of getting completely different kinds, I feel over time we have been increasingly more intentional and considerate about that; whereas initially once we have been simply associates, I feel you do not actually care in the identical manner. 

Helen Tupper: Properly I feel now, I see it as like an actual power of ours.  I feel, I do not know, 5, ten years in the past, I most likely would have been like, “Oh, this distinction can generally be a bit tough”; whereas now, as a result of Sarah and I are actually entering into writing our third guide in the intervening time, all I see is the advantages of it, as a result of I simply know that it will get higher due to what Sarah brings and I do know that I deliver stuff too.  And it is not simply the guide, it is plenty of issues.  And so now, I simply actually worth it and I see it as virtually a not-so-secret power of our partnership, is that we have each bought these variations in introversion and extroversion. 

Sarah Ellis: And I feel this issues for everybody for 3 causes.  Firstly, most of us do not work alone, we work in groups, so there’s at all times going to be a mix of introverts and extroverts.  And a few folks will even establish as what’s generally described as ambiverts, the place they kind of go, “Oh, I really feel like I am a little bit of each”.  And as we have at all times mentioned, or I at all times say, I at all times suppose labels aren’t useful, it is simply extra about self-awareness.  So, as we describe this at this time, simply see which one among these feels most such as you. 

I feel the second motive this issues is that once you do that nicely, you might be simply simpler, you obtain a greater stability.  And truly, there’s some actually fascinating articles and tales you’ll be able to examine introvert/extrovert combos.  Wozniak and Steve Jobs at Apple might be probably the most well-known one.  However that is as a result of they create very various things, they create very completely different strengths. 

Then thirdly, I do suppose generally extrovert/introvert relationships could cause friction.  These relationships can really feel like there’s plenty of battle, they’ll simply really feel difficult.  And perhaps you recognise that within the work that you just do, so that you suppose, “Properly, I’ve set to work with this individual”.  It is perhaps a supervisor, it is perhaps a peer, and also you simply know they have a really completely different model and method.  And also you’re pondering, “Properly, how can we constructively transfer ahead in order that we will get a few of these advantages that we’ll describe?” 

Helen Tupper: Properly, I feel till I would actually labored with you for so long as we have now now, I feel I would most likely solely actually thought of introversion and extroversion most likely when it pissed off me.  More often than not I do not give it some thought, however once you’re type of pissed off or discover somebody tough, you are like, “Oh, that is as a result of they’re like this”.  And I feel now, since clearly we have labored collectively so intently for fairly a very long time now, I am like, “Oh my gosh, there is a actually completely different alternative on this”.  If you can begin to actually take into consideration what is the profit that, you recognize, me being an extrovert and also you being an introvert, what is the profit that that brings, after which I virtually look out and look ahead now to working with introverts due to it.  That is very completely different to the place I most likely thought of this years in the past. 

Sarah Ellis: So, a quite simple definition of introversion and extroversion, a kind of go-to one in the event you’re searching for an actual shortcut, is commonly, the place do you get your vitality from?  So sometimes, introverts recharge and re-energise.  I consider it as like, what does it take to plug your battery in?  If you have to recharge your battery to your laptop computer or no matter, what does that appear to be for you?  And introverts are likely to recharge solo, by themselves or maybe in very small teams, significantly with folks they know very nicely. 

Extroverts, alternatively, recharge with different folks, wish to be surrounded by different folks, most likely fairly completely happy in massive teams.  And we’ll dive a bit bit extra into simply being a bit cautious about making assumptions round introversion and extroversion.  I at all times suppose it is actually necessary that individuals describe it for themselves, you recognize, like what does that imply; what does introversion imply to me?  As a result of for instance, I feel there are many people who find themselves rather more introverted than me, and I feel their working model would most likely nonetheless be very completely different to mine.  So, we each is perhaps, on the floor, introverts; however then, say in the event you labored with that individual versus me, it would really feel very completely different.  So, I feel simply give all people the chance to go, “Oh, after which that is the way it exhibits up”.  However definitely for the 2 of us, that is positively true about how we plug our batteries in. 

Helen Tupper: Yeah, I feel two good questions are, which one do you establish extra with, introvert or extrovert; not placing you in a field, you are not solely that, however which do you establish extra with?  And, how does that present up for you, to the purpose that it may be fairly nuanced and we’re not attempting to say, “Because of this, these are 5 issues that decide the way you present up at work”. 

Sarah Ellis: So, we thought it would be useful simply to begin by Helen sharing the introvert traits she sees in me, after which I will share the extrovert traits that I see in Helen. 

Helen Tupper: So, these are some introvert traits that I positively see in Sarah rather a lot.  She’s very reflective and considerate.  So, Sarah stays in her head for much longer than me and considers issues, I feel, extra deeply, which could be very, very helpful.  Additionally, considers issues from different folks’s views as nicely, I see that so much.  She has fewer relationships than me, however they’re deeper, they’re longer, and I feel you’ll be able to ask extra of these folks due to that.  So, I kind of see Sarah with the ability to amplify asks of the folks that she has these relationships with.  A particular discomfort with massive teams, so we simply keep away from them mainly, and the thought of huge teams.  So, that is perhaps creating an enormous Squiggly Profession group, and Sarah shall be like, “Oh, I am unsure about that”, simply the thought of it, as a result of she’ll be pondering, “Is that efficient?  Is everybody going to be snug in that?” simply the thought of it.  However then the fact of it. 

I’d say the fact of it’s simply, Sarah will solely get pleasure from a big group — it is not that she will’t be in it, however she is going to solely need to be a part of it for a shorter time frame.  So, as an instance we’re having an enormous occasion with plenty of folks.  Sarah will certainly be there, and she or he’ll positively present up and have interaction with plenty of folks, however I can virtually see the vitality waning.  I can see when Sarah’s like, “That is it now, I must go”.  It is usually a time once I’m kicking in, however Sarah’s like, “Helen, I am off.  You type this bar invoice and also you begin the following one, since you’re clearly going to maintain going”!  So I positively see type of a cutoff.  Doesn’t suggest Sarah would not become involved in them, however there’s positively a cutoff line when it is sufficient. 

I see a really completely different dynamic from Sarah in small-group conditions versus social conditions; simply behaves actually otherwise, indirectly, surprisingly.  So, to the purpose about, do not assume all introverts are the identical, generally Sarah might be a lot chattier than me in sure conditions and I was like, “What is going on on right here?  I am the chatty one”, and I would be quiet and suppose that truly it is nervousness.  I now know that it is the manner that Sarah feels accountable for that scenario, is to speak in it rather a lot, as a result of I do not know, I feel it is nerves; whereas I by no means used to understand that.  

So, I feel watch out to not make assumptions.  However they’re a few of the issues that I see in you that I now know that that is how introversion exhibits up for you. 

Sarah Ellis: So, some extrovert traits that I see in Helen.  Firstly, she radiates vitality in a room, so that you’re by no means going to overlook her, you will at all times know she’s there.  And we have identified one another for a very long time, and even in our college cohort, that was true.  However I feel significantly in massive teams, it is virtually like your vitality will get greater, the larger the room, the larger the group.  I am searching for the hearth escape and also you’re identical to, I do not know, I really feel simply glowing. 

Helen Tupper: I would been searching for the slide. 

Sarah Ellis: Yeah! 

Helen Tupper: I would be like, “The place’s the slide within the room?  We are able to have a celebration! 

Sarah Ellis: It is actually useful as a result of it simply means I haven’t got to do it, so it is so good!  Socialising is certainly a supply of delight and it is one thing so that you can look ahead to, and I simply see how necessary it’s in your weeks.  And it is humorous, I feel generally there will be a night the place you will be out virtually partying and I is perhaps sitting at dwelling working and I simply generally suppose, “Oh, nicely we’re each completely happy in our work.  It simply seems to be very completely different”.  I see much more blurred strains and bounds between work relationships and friendships with you.  I imply, I actually overheard you on a name yesterday suggesting to any person like, “Oh, ought to we exit for a drink?  Ought to we get dinner?”  And I used to be pondering — 

Helen Tupper: I imply, that is gone within the diary, that is completely gone within the diary. 

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I do know, I heard you then doing it.  I used to be simply pondering that occurs so much much less incessantly with me.  A few of my finest associates are from folks I’ve met at work.  However I feel you do this very incessantly and virtually with plenty of completely different folks, and once more, to the purpose the place I am not assuming you are a extremely good listener.  So, I feel generally folks have these very floor stage assumptions, “Oh, extroverts, they’re kind of, I do not know, loud, noisy, they at all times shout the loudest”.  And I am at all times like, nicely, you are unmissable, that is positively true, however you do not really feel the necessity to shout the loudest, you do not at all times really feel the necessity to have presence via interrupting or saying probably the most.  And we talked earlier than, I feel you are a extremely good listener and getting even higher on a regular basis, and you do not have that nervous vitality that I positively have and type of should work fairly arduous now on attempting to not have, as a result of often it is not that useful.  So, they’re the extrovert traits that I see in you. 

Helen Tupper: I feel it is really, it is a helpful factor to ask your self, you recognize, if I establish as an extrovert, how do I feel that exhibits up?  But additionally, to get that performed again by any person else, since you would possibly get some fairly shocking insights in that, which I feel might be simply helpful.  It is extra information to your growth, as we regularly say. 

Sarah Ellis: And I noticed not too long ago that Adam Grant, who has talked earlier than about being introverted — and there’s a nice guide if you’re an introvert referred to as Quiet, The Energy of Introverts by a woman referred to as Susan Cain, and I feel Adam Grant and Susan Cain know one another, and he talks about what an introvert means to him.  So really, he mentioned for him, it is not about the place he will get his vitality.  So he mentioned, for him being an introvert shouldn’t be about the place you get your vitality, it is the way you deal with stimulation.  Introverts are energised by folks too, and I actually recognise that, I am nonetheless actually energised by folks.  However he goes on to say, “We’re simply simply exhausted by loud events, shut talkers and infinite houseguests.  I am not anti-social, I am simply pro-quiet”.  And you recognize once you learn one thing and also you’re nodding so arduous, and also you’re identical to, “Sure, that”?  So, I am actually completely happy to see folks simply so long as they go, so long as they go away! 

Helen Tupper: A few of the WhatsApp messages that Sarah and I’ve about social conditions, in every kind of how, are very fascinating and by no means to be shared outdoors of our WhatsApps!  So, we have now bought three concepts for motion now, which we have now positively tried and examined these.  So, they’re very a lot issues which have labored for us in type of managing this stability.  And I feel what we’re attempting to say is, you would possibly most likely not have the kind of partnership the place you’ve got bought any person that you just work with as intently as Sarah and I do, who’s your reverse, however you’ll be able to kind of spot individuals who might need a barely completely different choice to you and use these concepts for motion to work higher collectively. 

Sarah Ellis: So, thought for motion one we’re calling “you/me/we”.  And the primary stage of this concept is to establish key classes the place you suppose your variations would possibly present up.  So, this might be as a mission group, this might be type of one-to-one, so like me and Helen speaking about this collectively, you might do that as a workforce.  So, the three that Helen and I got here up with have been relationships, pondering kinds, and the way we progress tasks.  Most likely fairly common, so a minimum of I would think about two of these three shall be useful for most individuals.  You additionally might need another ones that we have not considered.  And the thought right here is that you just kind of give all people the chance to do, “Properly, what does that imply for you?” by way of like, so let’s take “pondering model”.  So, if I mentioned to Helen, “So, Helen, how do you wish to suppose issues via?”  You’d say…?

Helen Tupper: “Out loud, with others, in a short time”. 

Sarah Ellis: After which I’d say, “Okay, that is actually fascinating.  What that appears like for me is time on my own, not being placed on the spot, being fairly reflective, after which sharing once I’m prepared”.  So, already you’ll be able to hear, listeners, there’s comparatively excessive ranges of distinction there.  So, we have achieved the you/me bit.  So, then you definitely transfer on to the we, which is the advantage of us working collectively and bringing our distinction.  So, the we is the advantage of us then working collectively.  And take a look at ending an announcement that begins with, “Collectively, we will…”  So as an instance, for instance, Helen and I are engaged on a podcast matter thought, and we’re attempting to determine, is that this going to be helpful for our listeners?  What lets say there’s, “Collectively, we will be sure that we actually suppose it via correctly, that the analysis is there, actually be sure that it connects with our insights, with what we’re right here to do, as a result of that is what I’d deliver.  I’d ask and reply plenty of questions of myself in my very own mind with out speaking to anybody else”. 

Helen Tupper: So true!

Sarah Ellis: “Whereas Helen would put that concept on Instagram and LinkedIn inside a minute, and she or he’ll get a great deal of dwell suggestions”.  And so then collectively, we have all of these completely different information factors that helps us to determine virtually, we get each quickness and high quality to then go, is {that a} good podcast matter; is that one thing we should always transfer ahead on?  And so there, it is only a actually particular instance of how really we’re we’re kind of higher collectively.

Helen Tupper: Yeah, and I actually see that on the opposite issues, so like on relationships for instance, we have now a greater vary of relationships, as a result of Sarah has these folks that we will make the large asks of as a result of she’s actually invested in them deeply, after which I’ve simply actually random folks that we will go and ask about, “Oh, I met this individual at an occasion two weeks in the past.  Let’s faucet that up”.  And the way in which that we progress tasks is I feel as a result of Sarah’s naturally reflective, she’s pondering via the implications of the whole lot, the longer-term outcomes.  And since I am identical to, “Oh, I’ve seen this, why do not we give it a go?  Let’s attempt it this week”, you get various tempo and fast issues from me, whereas you get the large wins from Sarah.  So, I see this on a regular basis, however I feel you must have that dialog collectively.  I feel that is the important thing bit, like what’s you, what’s me, and the place’s the we profit in it? 

Thought for motion quantity two is to note what works.  And I need to begin with a threat right here.  So, I feel the chance of this might be that you just would possibly have a look at different folks and suppose, “I must be extra like them”.  So, I is perhaps pondering, “Oh gosh, Sarah’s superb.  She is; truth.  I must be extra –“

Sarah Ellis: Thanks!

Helen Tupper: It is all proper, I will offer you that.  It is the tip of an extended day, all people, everybody wants some optimistic reinforcement.  However I is perhaps pondering, “Oh, I must be extra like Sarah with the intention to like, I want to only eliminate all of my extroversion and all of my Helen-ness, and I simply must be like Sarah”.  And equally, Sarah as an introvert would possibly suppose, “Oh, with the intention to succeed on this, I must develop into an extrovert”.  And we have talked about this earlier than at the beginning of our careers.  Sarah, I bear in mind once you have been going into that gross sales function in early careers and also you thought you needed to be extra like an extrovert and lose your self and be extra like that with the intention to succeed. 

Sarah Ellis: I feel I assumed that for fairly a very long time.  I feel it took me fairly a very long time to let go of the kind of extrovert, perhaps generally expectations, and I feel I labored for fairly a couple of extrovert leaders.  So, you’ll be able to’t assist however kind of be what you see. 

Helen Tupper: Sure.

Sarah Ellis: And so, as a result of I would bought these aspirations and people ambitions, I used to be like, “Oh nicely, if I need to do these type of roles with that scale of influence, then I must appear and feel and sound a bit like that”.  However inevitably, as quickly as I let go of that, I used to be manner higher at my job. 

Helen Tupper: Properly, that is the factor.  I feel the issue with attempting to show your self into any person else is that it would not actually make you very completely happy, and it would not make you as efficient as you might be.  I bear in mind once I used to work at Capital One, which was an organisation that I cherished working in, however I’d say that the profile of the person who succeeded was fairly completely different to me, as a result of they actually valued these analytical deep thinkers, who I’d say oriented rather more in the direction of introversion.  These are statisticians and analysts, they’re just like the super-brains, and attempting to be like them would have made me very sad and possibly very ineffective as nicely.  So, what we’re attempting to say is to note what works.  So, in these conditions that you just’re in, it might be a mission, it might be the tradition of the corporate, you are not attempting to repeat any person else, however you are attempting to note what works. 

So, as an instance I am in an organisation, there’s extra folks like Sarah than me, for instance, I is perhaps pondering like, “What’s it that Sarah does brilliantly?”  And I feel that is a extremely good query to ask since you’re actually seeing somebody’s strengths in that scenario.  So, I is perhaps like, “It is the way in which she pauses earlier than she contributes her pondering, or it is the way in which that she displays on the finish of a gathering”.  No matter it’s, I will be very, very intentional about noticing what works.  And the thought is that you just’re including that on to how you’re employed.  So, quite than kind of taking me away, I am not attempting to be much less extrovert, I am not attempting to be much less Helen, I am simply attempting so as to add on a few of the sensible issues that Sarah does.  And then you definitely’re kind of simply being your self, however a bit higher for that scenario, quite than dropping bits of your self within the course of. 

Sarah Ellis: So, thought for motion quantity three, we’re calling “be looking out”, and we got here up with this thought after which realised that neither of us actually did it.  So, that is most likely an motion for each of us as a result of we predict this could be one thing that is actually helpful and we have been each like, “Oh, yeah, we do not actually we do not actually make this occur”.  So, the explanation we have referred to as this “be looking out” is we wish you to look proactively for probabilities and alternatives to share your introversion, extroversion abilities, as a result of a few of these issues are traits however most of these traits then translate into abilities for the advantage of different folks.  And I feel we most likely all do that to some extent, reactively, unintentionally, simply via the course of our on a regular basis doing our jobs, however that is about being rather more proactive and intentional. 

So, in the event you mentioned to me, “Okay, so that you like to actually suppose issues via and also you’re reflective and also you’re good at type of asking and answering questions of your self, have you considered how and when that might be helpful for the remainder of the Wonderful If workforce?”  I’d be like, “No”.  So, I’ve not.  I do not suppose I’ve deconstructed the kind of abilities that I’ve ended up with, the type of learnt abilities that I’ve bought higher at, partly due to my persona, after which gone, “Who else, when else, the place else might these issues be helpful?” after which be actually type of beneficiant in going, “Oh, nicely it is a mission that feels fairly complicated or the place we’ll must do some deep pondering.  I’ve bought some useful abilities right here, perhaps I could make some strategies, perhaps I can assist to upskill another folks within the workforce”. 

Helen Tupper: And I type of suppose I do know that I can create a fast group round an thought that we have, to get some insights or to check one thing, and I feel I might actually assist somebody.  I’ve by no means thought of it earlier than, however I used to be having a dialog with a good friend final week.  He is launching one thing, it is fairly early days of it, and truly, if I would thought of it, if I would been extra looking out, I might have mentioned, “Inform me three issues that you are a bit apprehensive about or three bits of help you want”.  I might simply create a bit WhatsApp group of three or 4 folks that I’d suppose might be of assist, and I would be like, “Look, why do not we get a WhatsApp group?  They’re going to have the ability to offer you some actually fast concepts and suggestions which may get you began”.  That’s very easy and energising for me to do, however as a result of I feel I wasn’t looking out, I hadn’t thought how might my extroversion assist that individual; I simply did not counsel it.  It is solely, “I’ll do this after”.  After this podcast, I will get in contact with that individual and be like, “I used to be fascinated with you while I used to be speaking to Sarah, and I would have the ability to assist in a manner that I hadn’t thought via”. 

Sarah Ellis: I assume what that is, is actually making a optimistic bias in the direction of sharing what you recognize.  So, we at all times say in Squiggly Careers, “We must always all share what we all know so everybody can succeed, quite than preserve these items to ourselves”. 

Helen Tupper: Properly, I feel it is much less about what you recognize.  I feel it is a optimistic bias in the direction of serving to folks along with your choice.  A few of these issues aren’t all data.  It is that you just favor to suppose issues via and so that you’re type of going off, “I will have a optimistic bias to assist folks with my choice being an introvert”, then how are you — I do not know, a few of it is a expertise, a few of it is a talent, a few of it is simply extra of a choice.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, although I assume to do it successfully, as a result of I am now pondering if I am really going to do that; to do it successfully, you’ve got bought virtually translate.  As a result of a choice, I feel you typically do not suppose that — as a result of virtually, it’s a part of who I’m now, you recognize, and so long as you are snug with it, it is a part of your identification.  So, you are basically taking one thing that is extra perhaps persona, identification, choice, and you’ll should do a bit of labor of turning it into, “Properly then virtually, what would possibly that appear to be for different folks?” 

So, one instance you gave me once we have been testing this concept, and believably we do check these concepts earlier than we speak about them, you mentioned to me, “Oh, nicely naturally I am good at doing introductions”.  So, introductions, as a result of you recognize plenty of folks, you are able to do plenty of introductions.  So, that is virtually like a kind of issues that you have to give based mostly on — your extroversion means which you could give plenty of creating connections, creating introductions.  So, I feel I virtually must undergo that technique of going, “Properly, what do these preferences and persona traits then imply by way of what I’ve bought to offer?” after which be looking out for, “Who am I going to offer them to, when I will give them”.  Appears like plenty of work to do, mainly! 

Helen Tupper: However hopefully, like once we talked about originally, what does this appear to be for you, that very first query, so I establish as an extrovert, what does that appear to be for me?  Or what does Sarah see in me as an extrovert?  I feel these are a few of the issues which you could go, like Sarah mentioned, “Oh, Helen places vitality right into a room”.  So, what does that imply that I’ve bought to offer?  I’ve bought, you recognize, if somebody needs to begin one thing off, I’ve bought lots of vitality, I might type of create that in a room.  However I do suppose it’s actually, what have I bought to offer based mostly on my choice?  And there will be hundreds, there will be completely hundreds.  And in the event you’re struggling, as a result of that might be fairly a frightening query, I feel, ask different folks like, “What are the strengths that you just see in me?” you will get to a few of these insights.  However that then would possibly allow you to to attach the dots once you’re kind of looking out for how one can assist folks. 

Sarah Ellis: So, we hope that is been helpful for all you introverts and also you extroverts, equally necessary extroverts on the market.  When you have another concepts, instruments or methods that you’ve got seen have labored rather well in your expertise, or one thing that maybe you’ve got learnt that you just’d wish to share with our listeners, you may get in contact with us at any time.  We’re helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com.  We additionally love to listen to from you your concepts, so what would you want us to cowl within the podcast?  Or, if there’s any specialists you’d significantly like us to method to interview as a part of our Ask the Consultants collection, tell us that too. 

Helen Tupper: And all of these concepts for motion that we talked about shall be summarised within the PodSheet.  So, you will discover that on our web site, amazingif.com, or on the present notes.  And in the event you ever cannot discover something, simply give us an e-mail. 

Sarah Ellis: So, that is the whole lot for this week.  Again with you once more quickly, however bye for now. 

Helen Tupper: Bye everybody.