00:00:00: Introduction
00:04:04: 5 coach-yourself questions…

00:04:17: … 1: use extra of your strengths
00:05:05: … 2: attempt one thing for the primary time
00:07:34: … 3: speak to somebody in the identical position
00:08:40: … 4: obtain an formidable aim
00:11:31: … 5: most useful use of your expertise
00:14:26: 3 concepts for motion…
00:14:42: … 1: spot an issue and pitch an thought
00:19:47: …. 2: develop collectively
00:23:27: … 3: mutual work wins
00:30:04: Remaining ideas

Sarah Ellis: Hello, I am Sarah. 

Helen Tupper: And I am Helen. 

Sarah Ellis: And that is the Squiggly Careers podcast.  Each week, we take a unique matter to do with work, and we attempt to share some concepts and instruments that we hope will assist you, and it all the time continues to assist us, navigate your Squiggly Profession with that little bit extra confidence, readability and management. 

Helen Tupper: And we must always say Glad New Yr to all people! 

Sarah Ellis: We should always say Glad 2024! 

Helen Tupper: Do you assume there’s individuals listening to this for the primary time as a result of their new yr’s decision is, “I will pay attention podcast or spend money on my growth”?

Sarah Ellis: Or each.

Helen Tupper: I imply each.  Yeah, that is most likely why they’re listening to this.  However welcome; if you’re new to the world of Squiggly Careers, welcome.  So, now we have about 370 episodes so that you can compensate for!

Sarah Ellis: Glad 2024.  I really feel like that may be a actually constructive factor, like we needs to be actually happy with that.  However at any time when we are saying it, I am like, that simply appears overwhelming. 

Helen Tupper: Yeah, it does.  You need to use the search performance on our web site to search for matters.  I imply, I would not!  That is a sort of goal for us this yr to sort of enhance that. 

Sarah Ellis: It would not work that nicely. 

Helen Tupper: It simply comes up with quite a bit.  So, it’s kind of of a filter, however most likely not the best.  If you’re pondering, “Oh, the place do I begin?” possibly ship us a message both on LinkedIn, we have got an @amazingif web page on LinkedIn; or on Instagram, or simply electronic mail us, helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com.  And for those who give us the, “Oh, I am in search of some assist in…”, we can provide you just a little form of Squiggly Profession playlist to get you began.  And earlier than we get into the subject for at the moment’s episode, Sarah and I are recording collectively in pretty London, which is barely noisy at the moment.  There may be any individual doing a little renovation proper now, drilling within the background.  So for those who can hear that, we apologise, however we’re simply making an attempt to maintain it actual.  We do not do stuff in fancy studios!  We sort of carry our microphones wherever we go and try to file once we can.  Apologies for the noise for those who can hear any. 

Sarah Ellis: So at the moment, we’ll be speaking about how one can develop your position, and in some methods, this can be a little bit form of anti-New Yr, new you.  I believe you get to January and there is a great deal of articles and folks speaking about whether or not it is profession change or new job, and I believe typically it creates an unrealistic stress on pondering, “I have to do extra or do one thing totally different”.  However I believe for almost all of us realistically, we’ll preserve doing the identical job.  And that is not to sound demotivating or to be like, “Okay, nicely simply extra of the identical”.  I believe truly interested by, “Okay nicely I will be on this position most likely for this yr, extra probably than not, how do I truly profit from it? And one among my favorite bits of profession recommendation is, by no means stay the identical yr twice.  And so, regardless that I believe you are able to do the identical position on paper, or definitely for those who simply seemed on the title, and we all the time say you need to assume extra about skills than titles, you’ll be able to all the time be interested by, “Properly, how do I develop?  How do I progress?  How do I ensure that I’m match for each, doing an excellent job at the moment, but in addition match for the longer term?” 

So, we simply thought it was most likely a really pragmatic and sensible take to start out the brand new yr.  Everyone else is providing all these shiny guarantees; we’re like, “No, we’re simply going that can assist you be higher at your job at the moment”.  Let’s simply be a bit squiggly and wise about all this. 

Helen Tupper: Yeah!

Sarah Ellis: And the excellent news is that we’re not saying you’ll be able to’t search for a brand new position, however I believe this does provide you with a bit extra management, as a result of as quickly as you sort of go, “Oh, shifting is the very best factor for me to do for my growth”, you abruptly introduce a dependency, which is there must be a brand new alternative so that you can transfer into, and that may really feel fairly irritating if you cannot see it.  Whereas what we’re saying is, on the very least, attempt to develop your position, in order that within the job that you just’re in at the moment, you should have new experiences, and you may stretch your strengths a brand new method, and you may be taught extra.  And worst-case situation, you do not see this different factor you’d love to do; that is not a foul consequence from the work that you just’re doing on a day-to-day foundation. 

Helen Tupper: And it form of is sensible for those who join the dots.  If you happen to do a extremely sensible job of your day job, for those who do need to progress into a unique position, for those who do need to switch your skills, that is additionally more likely to occur.  So, I do really feel such as you win in each method right here, and it is easy truly to get distracted by, “I need a new job [or] I need a promotion [or] I need to transfer right into a supervisor position”.  Nevertheless it’s simply, I believe, all the time vital to not overlook the place you might be within the right here and now. 

Sarah Ellis: So, we thought we might begin with 5 coach-yourself questions, which Helen and I’ll chat via just a little bit as nicely, by way of what they imply for us, simply to get you interested by the yr forward, after which we have got three concepts for motion about how one can develop your position.  So, coach-yourself query primary, what strengths would you want to make use of extra within the job that you just do at the moment?  Helen, speak to me.

Helen Tupper: Oh, what strengths would I wish to …  Properly, we frequently speak about my prototyping energy.  I would really like just a little bit extra — it is form of headspace and diary house.  It is play house.  I really feel like I am good at prototyping after I’ve obtained time to play and it creates new instruments for us.  So, I might fairly wish to have some play days, that might be enjoyable. 

Sarah Ellis: And I see that you just’re superb at that.  And it additionally provides a whole lot of worth to different individuals however to us as a complete when you could have the house to do this.  It is virtually attention-grabbing, is not it?  Whenever you’re not doing it, it is virtually a little bit of a crimson flag for, “Can I be at my greatest if I am not…?”, like what does that appear like for you?  And prototyping is certainly a kind of. 

So, coach-yourself query quantity two, what may I attempt for the primary time?  So, that is about being a newbie.  I truly heard this described just lately as form of an novice mindset, and really how useful it’s to come back at issues with recent eyes, to be doing issues that you have not accomplished earlier than, however to not really feel like you have to change roles to make this occur.  So, Helen, what do you need to attempt for the primary time in 2024? 

Helen Tupper: It is most likely some issues in our periods.  So, a whole lot of the time for Sarah and I is spent working with corporations delivering profession growth programmes, which we completely love, however I want to most likely experiment just a little bit with how we ship a few of these, whether or not that is bringing some form of AI into it or whether or not it is bringing — I simply assume there’s some actually attention-grabbing tech that might make our periods much more interactive.  And there is some issues that we’re already speaking about, about how we are able to hyperlink stay studying to issues that individuals can refer again to.  And so, I might identical to to play with a few of that with a really low stress of it truly working.  Play appears to be a theme for me. 

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, attention-grabbing. 

Helen Tupper: What would you wish to attempt for the primary time? 

Sarah Ellis: Really I used to be interested by, you realize the place you have tried and failed earlier than?  So, I used to be additionally interested by the workshops that we do as a result of that’s the place we spend numerous our time.  And I like the concept of integrating music, motion and drawing, and thoughts maps, to have three M’s: music, motion and thoughts maps, as a result of I intuitively and instinctively know that every of these issues work by way of making studying final, and sort of creating power, they usually get our brains all sort of sparky and connecting.  And I’ve dabbled with them, however by no means deliberately sufficient.  Funnily sufficient, at one level, I did attempt to put some music right into a session, after which realised I might gone on mute in order that I used to be quiet for everyone else.  However clearly, that then meant they could not hear the music, so I used to be like, “How was the music?” they usually have been like, “However you are on mute”, I used to be like, “All proper yeah”, actually embarrassing!  As a result of I used to be like, “I will play some music”.

Helen Tupper: This revolutionary factor!

Sarah Ellis: And you realize you all the time simply have {that a} little bit of a concern of when you realize one thing works nicely as it’s, it all the time feels fairly laborious to vary it up. 

Helen Tupper: Yeah.

Sarah Ellis: So, I believe we have talked earlier than about protected testing, you realize, begin with a trusted group of individuals.  So, it is attention-grabbing that we each sort of went to the identical place, however most likely possibly we must always mix our totally different ideas. 

Helen Tupper: We most likely ought to, or our workshops are going to look actually, actually random.  If you happen to go to Sarah’s, you are going to be dancing and drawing; and for those who go to mine, I am simply going to be throwing a great deal of tech at you to do! 

Sarah Ellis: So, query three, who may I speak to who does the identical position as me however in a unique firm?  And the rationale we predict this can assist you to develop your position is, firstly, whenever you speak to somebody in a unique business that is doing one thing similar-ish, it would not have to be the very same job title, I believe you notice alternatives to do issues that maybe you hadn’t thought-about or they’re approaching issues in a brand new method, so you’ll be able to primarily borrow some brilliance.  I imply, there’s an additional upside I believe whenever you do that, you all the time get a little bit of empathy as a result of funnily sufficient, you possibly can be working within the charity sector and in a financial institution and also you begin speaking about your position, and also you realise you maybe have extra in frequent than you thought you’ll have.  And so, that may simply really feel fairly reassuring.  However by way of truly rising your position, I believe I’ve spent a bit extra time final yr speaking to individuals who run their very own corporations, and that wasn’t one thing I might accomplished earlier than.  So, doing the same position, most likely founders who run their very own firm, and also you do begin to spot alternatives to develop your self, to develop the way you’re spending your time, they usually simply provide you with I believe a unique lens on what development may appear like for you. 

Helen Tupper: So, our fourth query is, what could be an formidable aim to realize in my position?  I discovered this one fairly an attention-grabbing one, fairly like I used to be making an attempt to twist my head round, what would I believe could be actually helpful to do however most likely would take a little bit of effort to make it occur?  I believe that is the factor, it is obtained to be precious in your firm, however then one thing that is possibly too laborious to do at the moment.  And I used to be pondering one thing, you realize, we have talked earlier than about spending extra time in corporations virtually on a secondment foundation. 

Sarah Ellis: Yeah.

Helen Tupper: I used to be pondering, I might like to do some sort of a Squiggly Profession safari however inside different corporations, so like I’ve obtained six days that I may spend in different corporations simply getting just a little bit nearer to what are among the challenges culturally from a profession perspective, like do a little bit of sort of listening in an organization and studying.  I believe that feels fairly formidable as a result of I do not know many individuals that do this sort of factor, I do not know many corporations that allow you to in as nicely for that.  However I believe it might be actually, actually precious for studying and form of utilizing that studying to evolve how we assist.  That is mine, what would yours be? 

Sarah Ellis: Mine was form of comparable round safaris, however I used to be truly bodily interested by going to a unique nation. 

Helen Tupper: Oh, a rustic?  I will an organization, you are going to a rustic!

Sarah Ellis: I used to be going to a rustic, you are going to an organization.  So, I used to be pondering a whole lot of how we’re rising is much less in regards to the nation that we each stay in, and it is extra about people who find themselves desirous about growing their careers.  And I believe spending time in several nations with totally different cultures and form of being on the bottom, I believe you do get a unique really feel for what issues, what’s vital, most likely some nuances that you just could not anticipate.  I noticed an electronic mail that we had the place somebody stated a couple of workshop that individuals have been desirous about, in New Zealand.  And I believe we’d intuitively go, “Properly, no, we may do this nearly as a result of it would be extra environment friendly”, and you may’t assist however sort of have that productiveness mindset among the time. 

Whereas truly I used to be pondering, possibly we have to form of say sure to a few of these issues, regardless that they is perhaps much less environment friendly and extra time consuming, as a result of I believe you get added worth from different conversations and folks.  And I did it just a little bit final yr, not very a lot, however I do actually keep in mind, I imply I did not go very far, I went to Geneva which is like an hour, however the tradition of that firm was very totally different, I’d say, to some British corporations.  The folks that I used to be spending time with requested me very totally different questions and I used to be like, “Okay, that is simply attention-grabbing and insightful”.  And to your level about being helpful, I felt like I may then be extra universally helpful as a result of I might hung out there.  And so I believe, yeah, mine was extra about truly going to totally different locations. 

Helen Tupper: We should always have like a mutual goal subsequent yr with Squiggly Profession Safaris, each of us.  I really feel like we may maintain one another accountable for it.  Coach-yourself query quantity 5, what are my firm’s priorities and issues the place my expertise could be most helpful?  The purpose of this one, Sarah and I have been speaking, like how would we develop our roles, what would we do?  And we realised that Sarah and my strategy is barely totally different.  And my rapid one was like, “I’d map the organisation, the totally different departments”. 

Sarah Ellis: You have been doing numerous matrices, weren’t you? 

Helen Tupper: Clearly matrices and maps all the time.  I might be like, what are all of the totally different features; who’re the precedence individuals; what are their issues; and the way can I assist?  As a result of I believe I am fairly strategic about how relationships and alternatives can assist me to develop a task.  However that is precisely what I do.  I might actually get a pen and paper, I might put me, my staff, my division within the center, I’d put all of the features within the staff, within the organisation that I labored in, spherical that in a circle, after which I’d, for every of these features, I might be like, what’s their precedence this yr; what’s their greatest downside; and I’d attempt to attract a line between me and them by way of how may I assist, after which I would just work out which one to go after first.  And that might assist me to develop my position, it could assist me to develop my impression, it could assist me to develop my affect, so that might be probably helpful.  If you happen to’re a strategic relationship builder like me, it is perhaps a superb one to consider. 

Sarah Ellis: And I’d say, I’ve seen just a few folks that I’ve labored for take the strategy that Helen described, and it is rather efficient in rising your position, as a result of primarily what you are doing is you are not beginning with you, you are beginning elsewhere, and I believe that is a extremely good factor to do.  I believe typically whenever you’re speaking about, “Develop my position”, you get fairly, “Me and my position”.

Helen Tupper: “What do I need to do?” yeah.

Sarah Ellis: And I believe typically I’d be extra like that, I’d sort of begin with like —

Helen Tupper: “What would I get pleasure from?”

Sarah Ellis: — what would I get pleasure from?  And I believe as a result of my strengths are fairly spiky and fairly particular, I do form of begin with myself and go from there.  And that is not essentially fallacious, however I believe this can be a totally different method of it.  And likewise, your organisation will actually worth that.  And somebody as soon as stated to me, you need to all the time run to the laborious stuff that your organisation is grappling with, as a result of that is the stuff that actually issues to them, that is actually what’s on their thoughts.  And so it is humorous, you possibly can argue I believe rising your position is beginning with, nicely, how do you develop your organisation; how do you develop your staff; after which take into consideration, “Okay, nicely how may that assist me develop too?”  And it is a barely totally different method round of approaching the issue, I believe. 

Helen Tupper: And hopefully you may have heard, simply by Sarah and I speaking these items via, you are able to do coach-yourself questions by yourself, they’re simply actually helpful for reflection.  However I truly assume they’re even higher if, like in dialog.  And it isn’t about having the precise reply or the right one, it is nearly utilizing the questions as a little bit of a immediate in your pondering, and you will have heard Sarah and I do it.  I obtained to some new insights with Sarah than I most likely would have accomplished alone.  We’ll put these questions, by the best way, within the PodSheet, which shall be on our web site, amazingif.com, if you wish to take a look at these afterwards and spend a while interested by them.

So, now we have got three concepts for motion which assist you sort of transfer from the reflection half that we simply talked about, to doing one thing totally different together with your growth so that you truly develop your position.  And these are all tried and examined by Sarah and me, so we have got some tales to carry them to life for you.  So, thought for motion primary is a little bit of a construct on that final coach-yourself query.  It’s to identify an issue and pitch an thought.  That is totally different to recognizing an issue and fixing the issue; let’s clarify why. 

So, we have talked about recognizing an issue.  If you happen to can spot issues that different individuals run away from and that you just put your self ahead for, that just about offers you a form of place of energy, since you’re serving to individuals and folks like serving to individuals.  So, spot an issue in your organisation.  Now, this might be possibly in your division, it might be exterior of your division, however one thing that is not working as nicely correctly.  Fairly than simply fixing that downside and saying, “Proper, I will go do that”, pitch the concept.  So, “A method we may strategy that is…”, or, “Listed here are three ways in which I believe we may handle this situation that I’ve seen”. 

The rationale you need to pitch an thought and never the answer is as a result of it is a a lot better approach to contain individuals.  So, if I say to Sarah, “Oh, Sarah, I’ve noticed an issue.  The podcast is not rising sufficient out of the UK.  What I believe we must always get on with is that this…” then I am principally telling Sarah what we must always do.  And he or she is perhaps like, “Properly, I’ve truly obtained some concepts, and I might like to speak about them just a little bit extra”, and she or he’s not purchased into fixing it with me.  Whereas, if I share the issue I noticed with Sarah, some potential concepts, some issues that I’ve seen different individuals do, and I ask for her perspective, that is a a lot better approach to contain her, to create dedication, to create buy-in, so we’re fixing it collectively.  And out of doors examples actually assist right here as nicely.  So, for those who’re pitching an thought, bringing some perception from exterior your organisation, “I’ve seen this individual has accomplished this [or] this firm tried this”, is an efficient approach to not make this simply form of Helen’s opinion, however a bit extra goal. 

I’ve accomplished this just a few instances.  I used to work for BP, and after I was in BP, I labored in just like the B2B advertising and marketing space at BP.  One of many issues that I seen that different organisations did is they’d a extra sturdy buyer perception staff and we did not.  We had a whole lot of opinions about what needs to be accomplished, however not a whole lot of perception that was based mostly on the purchasers.  I noticed that downside and it meant that it’s totally opinion-based selections slightly than objective-based selections.  And so, I pitched this concept of getting this form of buyer perception, thought management staff based mostly on what I might seen from different corporations, and I talked it via with the director on the time; not me saying, “That is what I undoubtedly assume we must always do”, however, “That is one strategy that we may contemplate which may assist us to resolve this downside”.  And it meant that my director was way more concerned in that, they felt it was their thought too, and in the end, we sort of modified the best way the staff was structured on account of that. 

I did precisely the identical factor at Virgin.  I noticed an issue with the commercials of a enterprise that I used to be a part of, pitched an thought for what might be higher, obtained lots of people concerned in that, so it undoubtedly wasn’t my brand-new factor.  It was one thing that different individuals have been very concerned in and would establish with as being form of their answer.  And once more, in consequence, we modified how the staff was structured, and my position grew in each of these.  I ended up with new positions truly that have been greater and higher on account of recognizing an issue and pitching an concept that different individuals have been concerned in fixing. 

Sarah Ellis: And the one factor we thought it is price flagging right here, that is one thing that takes time.  So, we’ll speak about just a few totally different concepts, however that is one the place it very not often occurs in a single day or subsequent week.  You notice an issue and also you’re speaking about concepts, you are involving different individuals, so simply beware the form of shiny thought that you’ll lose curiosity in.  So, you realize whenever you’re like, “Oh, this would possibly really feel like one thing that feels fairly attention-grabbing for now”, I believe you have to be ready to form of virtually be referred to as on it and be like, “Oh, okay, so how would you do that, or how are you going to make this occur?” since you initiated it.  So, you undoubtedly need to be sure it is one thing that you just really feel like you’ll be able to keep dedicated to, or like we are saying, it isn’t essentially all obtained to be you, but in addition realizing that you just’re like, firstly, each Helen’s examples, she did develop her position, it did work out. 

I can even undoubtedly consider examples of taking this strategy, and typically it would not work out.  However truly, I believe even the method, you develop your position via the method.  So, you realize letting go of the reply equals rising your position; it is like, nicely truly, simply even studying to pitch an thought, how one can contain different individuals, you may improve your affect, you may improve your impression.  It would change the best way you’d imagined, it is perhaps one thing fully totally different.  It would say the identical, however I not often assume you lose on account of doing this. 

Helen Tupper: I all the time assume after I do it, I am making an attempt to catch power.  So, I’ll spot the issue, I will pitch the concept and what I am in search of is somebody to be like, “Yeah, that is a terrific thought, let’s speak about that extra”.  And so, I can let an thought go fairly rapidly if I do not catch power from different individuals. 

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, you possibly can truly, I see that. 

Helen Tupper: Yeah, nicely as a result of to your level, it is too laborious to do that by yourself.  You want different individuals to need to be concerned in an effort to preserve it going.  And so, yeah, I believe we’re all drawn to shiny issues and you may see stuff in different corporations that you just assume is actually cool.  However I believe my prime tip is whenever you’re pitching the concept, attempt to catch the power and it’ll assist with the dedication bit. 

Sarah Ellis: So, thought for motion quantity two is rising collectively.  So, once more, I believe we talked about you could be a bit too single-minded whenever you’re probably making an attempt to develop your position and also you simply take a look at, “Me and my position”.  I believe it is a actually good query to ask your self, who else would possibly need to develop their position in both the same approach to you, so you possibly can form of develop collectively on the identical factor, or who may you possibly work with to develop who’s obtained complementary or distinctively totally different expertise or strengths.  So once more, you’d form of find yourself being higher collectively, you are higher due to this. 

So, Helen and I have been pondering, nicely, we undoubtedly grew ourselves once we began working collectively again in 2013, within the heady days of 2013, once we first began Superb If, and that was us coming along with totally different strengths, however undoubtedly some identical beliefs and values about what we have been making an attempt to do.

Helen Tupper: It was so geeky.  I simply always remember, we used to spend our weekends collectively, mapping issues out. 

Sarah Ellis: It is most likely at that time the place you realize you are at the very least doing one thing you get pleasure from, whenever you’re selecting to do it at your weekend. 

Helen Tupper: I am any individual who has simply obtained that very same ardour for issues.  I believe most individuals would not contemplate Submit-it notes on partitions and concepts on the weekend their thought of enjoyable, however we have been like, “That is nice!” 

Sarah Ellis: I imply we nonetheless message one another now going, “I want we may do this”.  It is simply now we have different commitments now. 

Helen Tupper: Kids!

Sarah Ellis: Mainly, yeah!  And companions!  However you realize, we had companions then, we had the identical companions. 

Helen Tupper: It made no distinction, it is the youngsters! 

Sarah Ellis: That is true, it is all their fault.  And I believe we have been each reflecting on, we grew as people via that course of, however I additionally assume I used to be higher in my day job as a result of I used to be doing that, as a result of I used to be stretching my strengths in new conditions.  I used to be creating new connections and networks that have been then truly helpful again in my job.  So, it would not all the time should be in your organisation.  However I can even consider an instance of the place, I wasn’t working in profession growth, I used to be working most likely in content material or advertising and marketing technique on the time, however I had a buddy in that perform who was additionally actually desirous about growth.  And so we have been like, “Oh, how may we assist advertising and marketing as a perform with all people’s growth?”  And we simply began actually small and we truly obtained some actually good recommendation to start out small, from our director who we each labored with.  And he or she was like, “Okay, you are fairly totally different however you have each obtained this ardour for growth.  Simply begin small, present up, provide you with some concepts, get began primarily.  So, do not sort of overthink it or overdesign it”. 

We each undoubtedly grew our roles from working collectively.  You are constant, you additionally present up for one another.  I believe you find yourself with a little bit of an accountability accomplice for development, as a result of I used to be form of rising along with her, but in addition, I did not need to not do the factor I might stated I used to be going to do.  And it was additionally such an gratifying factor, as a result of you could have one thing that is simply, you stay up for, you utilize your mind otherwise, however our beware or sort of watchout is that it would not distract you out of your day job, relying on what it’s.  As a result of I believe I undoubtedly fell into this entice typically, most likely as a result of I loved some of these things greater than my day job, and also you simply have to determine if that is how you are going to develop with another person.  If it may be a part of your day job, I’d say even higher.  However all of the examples I may consider, they have been form of usually on the periphery of my day job.  I definitely assume they made me higher at my day job, however there was all the time a little bit of a danger for me by way of what you are prioritising.  Simply test you are not shedding give attention to what you actually need to ship to be wonderful at your job. 

Helen Tupper: And our third thought for motion is that mutual work win.  So, we have been making an attempt to consider whenever you’re rising your position, one of many ways in which you are able to do that’s by taking over extra duty.  And that might be out of your supervisor, it is sort of an apparent individual to tackle extra duty, or it might be from a colleague.  There might be one thing {that a} colleague’s doing that you possibly can spend a while on that might assist you to sort of stretch and develop your position.  However we have been pondering that if I simply stated to Sarah, for instance, “Oh, that factor that you just’re doing, I might love to do it now”, Sarah is perhaps like, “I am unsure, I am unsure I may simply provide you with that”.  Or if I simply stated to Sarah, “Oh, what may I do that might assist you?”  Sarah could be like, “Oh, I am unsure, as a result of typically it’s kind of difficult”. 

Sarah Ellis: We tried this, did not we, on one another?  And we have been like, for those who simply stated that, it is fairly laborious to unpick typically like, “Properly, what could be useful?” 

Helen Tupper: Yeah, “How can I decouple issues that I do to provide some to you?”  That appears like, I do not know, I am unable to simply provide you with finance as a result of I do these items, or no matter it’s.  It is sort of laborious to abruptly come up on the spot with one thing that you just do that might assist another person’s growth.  So, we thought a greater approach to develop your position via taking over extra duty could be to first get nearer to what somebody does.  So, shadow somebody who you assume may need the potential to develop your position.  So, for instance, I may say, “Oh, Sarah, I am actually desirous about studying a bit extra in regards to the work that you just’re doing on model”, for instance, “The subsequent couple of conferences that you just’re in the place you are speaking about that, may I simply sort of pay attention and be taught?”  And on account of sort of that listening and studying, you do not even have to make use of the phrase “shadowing” for those who really feel like that is a bit formal, you possibly can simply say, “I might wish to pay attention and be taught just a little bit extra about what you are doing in that space, can I be a part of just a few conferences?” you are principally observing, that is what you are doing.

In that strategy of listening and observing, what you are doing is recognizing alternatives for, “Perhaps if I took that bit on from Sarah then I may (a) save her time, so she’s not having to do this factor, and (b) it could assist me to sort of develop my position too.  I might be doing one thing totally different, I might be utilizing my strengths otherwise”.  So then, after I sort of clarify that to Sarah, I am not simply saying, “I need to do this factor that you just do”.  What I am saying is, “Having seen the way you’re doing all of your work, I believe a technique I may assist you is that if I took that bit away.  It could be a terrific alternative for me to stretch my strengths however it could provide you with that point again, so you possibly can do X, Y and Z as an alternative”.  So, you are making a mutual work win however in an effort to do this credibly, you are most likely going to should get nearer to the work that somebody’s doing. 

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I actually like this instance as a result of I really feel prefer it’s a really sensible one which we are able to most likely all do, as a result of we’re not speaking right here about revolutionising your position or massively remodeling it, you are most likely speaking about doing one particular factor that you do not do at the moment, however that’s going that can assist you develop.  So, that is I believe the filter whenever you’re that is going, “Proper, nicely, what is going on to assist me develop?  Is it spending time with totally different components of my firm; is it spending time on a unique kind of challenge; is it spending time growing individuals in our staff, and I do not do this at the moment?”  You are very clear in regards to the, “Properly, how is that this going to assist me develop?” you’ll be able to see that.  However I believe to have the ability to reply that query, that is the place you form of want the closeness, since you’re both like, “Oh, it will develop a talent that I need to reinforce.  It is simply going to provide me entry to one thing that I do not get at the moment”. 

As Helen stated, we predict there’s undoubtedly the watchout across the unhelpful provide of assist, the like, “How can I assist?”  And you are like, “Oh, that is fairly difficult”, so be careful for that.  The opposite watchout right here that we did need to point out is sort of, it is all the time in quote marks in my head at any time when I take into consideration that is, “Oh, this can be a growth alternative”.  Now, we speak quite a bit about growth being a extremely good factor, however there’s a distinction I believe between, this can be a mutual work win the place we go, “Everybody feels actually good about this, it really works for everyone” versus, “I am now simply doing a job that it has extra tasks that I am not getting paid for”, and I believe that is one thing totally different.  That usually means way more time in these areas, virtually like your complete job has grown virtually concurrently.  You have gone from doing one factor, sort of state of affairs A, and it is now truly you are doing one thing so totally different. 

Helen Tupper: Can I counter to this? 

Sarah Ellis: Go on.  You need to watch out! 

Helen Tupper: I do know.  I’d warning, this might be a superb debate all people, as a result of that is principally the territory of stretch roles, which I’ve accomplished in an organization, which is precisely what Sarah’s saying.  You are principally doing a job that is greater than the one that you just’re being paid for, primarily, and the way lengthy you do this for can, I believe, develop into a difficulty for those who’re not paid for the work that you just’re doing.  Nevertheless, I believe I, strategic Helen, would most likely say, I will develop my position in order that it’s basically greater, after which I will pitch for extra pay.  So, I believe I’d use this as a approach to argue my case for the next wage.  I is perhaps like, I will pitch for extra duty, I’ll do a superb job there, so then that turns into a basic a part of my position.  After which having that’s now an ongoing a part of my job, I’d then say, “Properly, my position over the past 6 to 12 months, my tasks now embrace X, Y and Z and in consequence, I might like that to be mirrored in my pay”.  I’d most likely use it strategically to ask for extra money. 

Sarah Ellis: Sure.  I believe I’ve simply heard a whole lot of examples of individuals doing far more work than they’re paid for. 

Helen Tupper: I believe it is the place the course of management is over this.  So, for those who’re feeling placed on, “Oh, Sarah are you able to simply… may you simply…” and abruptly you are like, “Oh my God, I am doing all people’s work and I am not being paid for any of it”. 

Sarah Ellis: Or possibly you are promised, you realize the entire like —

Helen Tupper: Breadcrumbing and — 

Sarah Ellis: Yeah.  I believe it relies upon how, such as you stated, how intentional it’s, but in addition how specific it’s.  And you have additionally talked there about that about time certain.  So, I am going, nicely okay, for those who’ve had a really open dialog together with your supervisor that claims, “I’m doing a much bigger job, for the time being I am not getting paid for it, that is what it appears like, that is how lengthy that feels okay for.  And have you learnt what, at this second, principally this isn’t sustainable eternally”.  And I believe you probably have opted into that, and really to be trustworthy, the factor I all the time say to individuals on that is like, “And it is written down”, I believe usually these issues do not get written down after which issues change after which you find yourself feeling such as you’re fairly helpless and lack of management and you have most likely given quite a bit, however then it is the give-gain, is not it?  I believe individuals usually really feel like they offer quite a bit for a very long time.  So, I am simply all the time very conscious of like, I do not know, individuals I suppose being rewarded for what they’ve given. 

Helen Tupper: Yeah.  Intentional, specific and timebound, I believe, are sort of good flags. 

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I really feel like now we’re on one other podcast! 

Helen Tupper: What you have principally heard is how mine and Sarah’s brains form of work in a different way.  I am like, “Oh, I do that”, Sarah’s like, “Oh, I do not know, little bit of a watchout there”, after which there’s some sort of perception on the finish of it!  So, hopefully that was just a little useful tangent.  So, now we have coated three fundamental concepts for motion: spot an issue, pitch an thought; attempt to develop collectively; and discover the mutual work wins.  We are going to summarise the how behind these concepts within the PodSheet, however we hope that has been useful and we hope you are up for rising your position this yr.  Tell us the way you get on.  You’ll be able to electronic mail us, we love updates on how persons are placing all these items into motion; so, you’ll be able to electronic mail us, simply give us a little bit of perception into your Squiggly Profession story.  It is simply helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com.

Sarah Ellis: And for those who’ve obtained any matters you would like us to cowl or friends that you’d notably like to listen to from, tell us as nicely as a result of we all the time learn all of these, and it simply helps us to verify we’re being as helpful for you as we probably can.  However that is all for this week and for the beginning of 2024.  We’ll be again subsequent week.  Thanks once more for listening and bye for now.

Helen Tupper: Bye, everybody.